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	<title>Comments for The Yerushalmi Blog</title>
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	<link>http://www.yerushalmionline.org/blog</link>
	<description>Audio Shiurim, Seforim plus more on Talmud Yerushalmi</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:50:30 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Links to 4 new seforim posted by Eli</title>
		<link>http://www.yerushalmionline.org/blog/?p=34&#038;cpage=1#comment-18</link>
		<dc:creator>Eli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2011 22:50:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yerushalmionline.org/blog/?p=34#comment-18</guid>
		<description>Thanks for asking about all of this. I love a good discussion.

There is not any English translation of Yerushalmi that&#039;s free. The only not free translations that are out there is Jacob Neusner&#039;s which I am not sure will help you very much, and Artscroll. I don&#039;t have either one so can&#039;t send you the relevant pages. Sorry.

If you just need Mishna Kilayim 1:4 without the Yerushalmi, in English, you can download that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.hebrewbooks.org/9675&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.

As far as your question goes about grafting of olives it goes as follows. Yerushalmi Kilayim 1:7, Vilna Daf 3b says:
&lt;em align=&quot;right&quot;&gt;
תני אין מרכיבין זיתים ברכב של תמרה מפני שהוא אילן באילן.  רבי יודן בעי ולית הדא פליגא על רבי לוי (תהילים קכח) אשתך כגפן פוריה בירכתי ביתך כשתילי זתים סביב לשולחנך.  מה זיתים אין בהן הרכבה.  אף בניך לא יהא בהן פסולת.  הא מכלל שיש בהן פסולת.  שנייא היא הכא שהוא עתיד למתקה כהדא רבי שמעון בר&#039; הוה משקי פרסתקיה יין מבושל בשביל למתקה
&lt;/em&gt;
My translation:
&lt;em&gt;We learned in Beraita (Tosefta Kilayim 1:7): We do not graft olives onto a graft (i.e. branch) of a fig because it is considered grafting a tree onto another tree. Rebbi Yudan asked: Does not this [Beraita] argue on Rebbi Levi [who said the following?], &quot;[It says] (Tehillim 128) &#039;Your wife is like a wild vine. I have blessed your house like olive seedlings surrounding your table.&#039; Just like [the prohibition] of grafting does not apply to olives, so too you will not have bad (literally: garbage) sons.&quot; But we learn from this Beraita that there will be garbage (i.e. new &quot;bad&quot; fruit) from them (i.e. the olives)? The reason this Beraita was learned here was to teach you that [by grafting olives onto figs] he (i.e. the farmer) will sweeten them (i.e. olives) as [we learn] from this [case]: Rebbi Shimon Ben Rebbi used to water his peach tree with boiled wine in order to sweeten it.&lt;/em&gt;

Pnei Moshe explains this whole discussion as follows:
Rebbi Yudan thought that according to Rebbi Levi the prohibition of grafting does not apply to olives, because if you graft olives onto any other tree, it will not make new fruit. And if you graft another fruit tree onto olives it will continue making olives, so either way a new type of fruit was not created and therefore this is not considered grafting. This clearly contradicts the quoted Beraita according to which grafting olives with figs is forbidden. The Gemara answers that the reason the Beraita forbids grafting olives with figs is not because it will make a new type of fruit, but because even though the olive tree with the graft will continue to make olives, their flavor will change as a result of the graft and they will become sweeter. This small change is enough for this to be considered Kilayim and therefore is forbidden. However, all Rebbi Levi meant was that the olive tree does not produce new &quot;bad&quot; fruit as a result of the graft and therefore his metaphor with children still works. He agrees with the quoted Beraita though that there is a prohibition of Kilayim that applies to grafting olives with another tree. The Gemara finally proves that sweetening olives by grafting is possible from the case of Rebbi Shimon Ben Rebbi who used wine to water his peaches and as a result caused them to be sweeter, so we see that fruit on a tree can be made sweeter by adding to it stuff from another sweeter fruit (i.e. wine from grapes).

My comments:
It&#039;s important to remember that the Gemara does not require scientific facts as proof for its assumptions. Merely stating that there is an oral tradition of the proposed claim is good enough proof, despite the fact that the oral tradition itself is flawed or inaccurate. The fact is that olives can be grafted with other olives to change the cultivar type (see &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/olive.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;), but that would not be Kilayim since both cultivars are still olives. You can also graft wild olives with domesticated olives. I am not sure what the Yerushalmi would think of such a graft. The Romans were very aware that olives and figs can be grafted together. See &lt;a href=&quot;http://books.google.com/books?id=iUFMoz9alLAC&amp;pg=PA236&amp;dq=grafting+olives+with+figs&amp;hl=en&amp;ei=4w2RTbqVN4POswajkOGlDw&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=book_result&amp;ct=result&amp;resnum=2&amp;ved=0CDwQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&amp;q=grafting%20olives%20with%20figs&amp;f=false&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here &lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://chestofbooks.com/gardening-horticulture/Journal-9/How-The-Romans-Grafted-The-Grape-Vine-By-Horticola.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; for quotes from Columella and Pliny. From just some quick perusal on the web it seems that a lot of people are saying that such grafts are impossible, because the trees are too different from each other. I am not sure what the latest research on the matter is and what the limitations are. I will leave it up to you to dig further.

Hope this helps. 

Regards
Eli</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for asking about all of this. I love a good discussion.</p>
<p>There is not any English translation of Yerushalmi that&#8217;s free. The only not free translations that are out there is Jacob Neusner&#8217;s which I am not sure will help you very much, and Artscroll. I don&#8217;t have either one so can&#8217;t send you the relevant pages. Sorry.</p>
<p>If you just need Mishna Kilayim 1:4 without the Yerushalmi, in English, you can download that <a href="http://www.hebrewbooks.org/9675" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
<p>As far as your question goes about grafting of olives it goes as follows. Yerushalmi Kilayim 1:7, Vilna Daf 3b says:<br />
<em align="right"><br />
תני אין מרכיבין זיתים ברכב של תמרה מפני שהוא אילן באילן.  רבי יודן בעי ולית הדא פליגא על רבי לוי (תהילים קכח) אשתך כגפן פוריה בירכתי ביתך כשתילי זתים סביב לשולחנך.  מה זיתים אין בהן הרכבה.  אף בניך לא יהא בהן פסולת.  הא מכלל שיש בהן פסולת.  שנייא היא הכא שהוא עתיד למתקה כהדא רבי שמעון בר&#8217; הוה משקי פרסתקיה יין מבושל בשביל למתקה<br />
</em><br />
My translation:<br />
<em>We learned in Beraita (Tosefta Kilayim 1:7): We do not graft olives onto a graft (i.e. branch) of a fig because it is considered grafting a tree onto another tree. Rebbi Yudan asked: Does not this [Beraita] argue on Rebbi Levi [who said the following?], &#8220;[It says] (Tehillim 128) &#8216;Your wife is like a wild vine. I have blessed your house like olive seedlings surrounding your table.&#8217; Just like [the prohibition] of grafting does not apply to olives, so too you will not have bad (literally: garbage) sons.&#8221; But we learn from this Beraita that there will be garbage (i.e. new &#8220;bad&#8221; fruit) from them (i.e. the olives)? The reason this Beraita was learned here was to teach you that [by grafting olives onto figs] he (i.e. the farmer) will sweeten them (i.e. olives) as [we learn] from this [case]: Rebbi Shimon Ben Rebbi used to water his peach tree with boiled wine in order to sweeten it.</em></p>
<p>Pnei Moshe explains this whole discussion as follows:<br />
Rebbi Yudan thought that according to Rebbi Levi the prohibition of grafting does not apply to olives, because if you graft olives onto any other tree, it will not make new fruit. And if you graft another fruit tree onto olives it will continue making olives, so either way a new type of fruit was not created and therefore this is not considered grafting. This clearly contradicts the quoted Beraita according to which grafting olives with figs is forbidden. The Gemara answers that the reason the Beraita forbids grafting olives with figs is not because it will make a new type of fruit, but because even though the olive tree with the graft will continue to make olives, their flavor will change as a result of the graft and they will become sweeter. This small change is enough for this to be considered Kilayim and therefore is forbidden. However, all Rebbi Levi meant was that the olive tree does not produce new &#8220;bad&#8221; fruit as a result of the graft and therefore his metaphor with children still works. He agrees with the quoted Beraita though that there is a prohibition of Kilayim that applies to grafting olives with another tree. The Gemara finally proves that sweetening olives by grafting is possible from the case of Rebbi Shimon Ben Rebbi who used wine to water his peaches and as a result caused them to be sweeter, so we see that fruit on a tree can be made sweeter by adding to it stuff from another sweeter fruit (i.e. wine from grapes).</p>
<p>My comments:<br />
It&#8217;s important to remember that the Gemara does not require scientific facts as proof for its assumptions. Merely stating that there is an oral tradition of the proposed claim is good enough proof, despite the fact that the oral tradition itself is flawed or inaccurate. The fact is that olives can be grafted with other olives to change the cultivar type (see <a href="http://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/olive.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>), but that would not be Kilayim since both cultivars are still olives. You can also graft wild olives with domesticated olives. I am not sure what the Yerushalmi would think of such a graft. The Romans were very aware that olives and figs can be grafted together. See <a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=iUFMoz9alLAC&#038;pg=PA236&#038;dq=grafting+olives+with+figs&#038;hl=en&#038;ei=4w2RTbqVN4POswajkOGlDw&#038;sa=X&#038;oi=book_result&#038;ct=result&#038;resnum=2&#038;ved=0CDwQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&#038;q=grafting%20olives%20with%20figs&#038;f=false" rel="nofollow">here </a> and <a href="http://chestofbooks.com/gardening-horticulture/Journal-9/How-The-Romans-Grafted-The-Grape-Vine-By-Horticola.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> for quotes from Columella and Pliny. From just some quick perusal on the web it seems that a lot of people are saying that such grafts are impossible, because the trees are too different from each other. I am not sure what the latest research on the matter is and what the limitations are. I will leave it up to you to dig further.</p>
<p>Hope this helps. </p>
<p>Regards<br />
Eli</p>
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		<title>Comment on Links to 4 new seforim posted by lukoie</title>
		<link>http://www.yerushalmionline.org/blog/?p=34&#038;cpage=1#comment-17</link>
		<dc:creator>lukoie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Mar 2011 21:26:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yerushalmionline.org/blog/?p=34#comment-17</guid>
		<description>hello. is there any online or pdf version of Yerushalmi in english available?
1 If you have one, but cannot publish in online, could you please give me Kilayim 1, mishna 4?
2 And could you please comment on this one: http://goo.gl/RQ2bo
On the page 451 its been said: &quot;However, according to Talmudic sources (Yerushalmi Kilayim 1:7), the verse &#8216;&#8216;Your sons like olive seedlings surrounding your table&#8217;&#8217; (Psalms 128:3) is interpreted &#8216;&#8216;Just like olive trees, which are never grafted, so your offspring will be flawless.&quot; But i could not find those words. Will appreciate any help.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hello. is there any online or pdf version of Yerushalmi in english available?<br />
1 If you have one, but cannot publish in online, could you please give me Kilayim 1, mishna 4?<br />
2 And could you please comment on this one: <a href="http://goo.gl/RQ2bo" rel="nofollow">http://goo.gl/RQ2bo</a><br />
On the page 451 its been said: &quot;However, according to Talmudic sources (Yerushalmi Kilayim 1:7), the verse &lsquo;&lsquo;Your sons like olive seedlings surrounding your table&rsquo;&rsquo; (Psalms 128:3) is interpreted &lsquo;&lsquo;Just like olive trees, which are never grafted, so your offspring will be flawless.&quot; But i could not find those words. Will appreciate any help.</p>
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		<title>Comment on New Audio Shiurim On Yerushalmi by Eli</title>
		<link>http://www.yerushalmionline.org/blog/?p=9&#038;cpage=1#comment-15</link>
		<dc:creator>Eli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Dec 2010 10:34:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yerushalmionline.org/blog/?p=9#comment-15</guid>
		<description>not that I know of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>not that I know of.</p>
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		<title>Comment on New Audio Shiurim On Yerushalmi by Asher</title>
		<link>http://www.yerushalmionline.org/blog/?p=9&#038;cpage=1#comment-14</link>
		<dc:creator>Asher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Dec 2010 17:35:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yerushalmionline.org/blog/?p=9#comment-14</guid>
		<description>Are there any Shiurim on Yerushalmi in Yiddish ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are there any Shiurim on Yerushalmi in Yiddish ?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Link to 1 new sefer posted by Eli</title>
		<link>http://www.yerushalmionline.org/blog/?p=26&#038;cpage=1#comment-10</link>
		<dc:creator>Eli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Oct 2010 10:27:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yerushalmionline.org/blog/?p=26#comment-10</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t know anything specific.
Try these books. They all have something on Yevamos.

 &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.hebrewbooks.org/35921&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Yerushalmi Yevamos with the commentary by R&#039; Shlomo Friedlander&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.hebrewbooks.org/29037&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Binyan Yerushalayim on Yerushalmi Agadeta by R&#039; Noach Chaim Levin&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.hebrewbooks.org/5975&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Kevod Chachamim on Yerushalmi Agadeta by R&#039; Shimon Wolf&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.hebrewbooks.org/44815&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Yafeh Mareh on Yerushalmi Agadeta by R&#039; Shmuel Yaffe - Venice edition&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.hebrewbooks.org/42618&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Yafeh Mareh on Yerushalmi Agadeta by R&#039; Shmuel Yaffe - Berlin edition&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.hebrewbooks.org/37359&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Yafeh Mareh on Yerushalmi Agadeta by R&#039; Shmuel Yaffe - Amsterdam edition&lt;/a&gt;


I need to update the seforim list, because it&#039;s still missing a lot of books.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t know anything specific.<br />
Try these books. They all have something on Yevamos.</p>
<p> <a href="http://www.hebrewbooks.org/35921" rel="nofollow">Yerushalmi Yevamos with the commentary by R&#8217; Shlomo Friedlander</a><br />
<a href="http://www.hebrewbooks.org/29037" rel="nofollow">Binyan Yerushalayim on Yerushalmi Agadeta by R&#8217; Noach Chaim Levin</a><br />
<a href="http://www.hebrewbooks.org/5975" rel="nofollow">Kevod Chachamim on Yerushalmi Agadeta by R&#8217; Shimon Wolf</a><br />
<a href="http://www.hebrewbooks.org/44815" rel="nofollow">Yafeh Mareh on Yerushalmi Agadeta by R&#8217; Shmuel Yaffe &#8211; Venice edition</a><br />
<a href="http://www.hebrewbooks.org/42618" rel="nofollow">Yafeh Mareh on Yerushalmi Agadeta by R&#8217; Shmuel Yaffe &#8211; Berlin edition</a><br />
<a href="http://www.hebrewbooks.org/37359" rel="nofollow">Yafeh Mareh on Yerushalmi Agadeta by R&#8217; Shmuel Yaffe &#8211; Amsterdam edition</a></p>
<p>I need to update the seforim list, because it&#8217;s still missing a lot of books.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Link to 1 new sefer posted by uo</title>
		<link>http://www.yerushalmionline.org/blog/?p=26&#038;cpage=1#comment-9</link>
		<dc:creator>uo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Oct 2010 23:49:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yerushalmionline.org/blog/?p=26#comment-9</guid>
		<description>Does anyone know a good pirush on aggadta in yerushalmi Yevamous?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone know a good pirush on aggadta in yerushalmi Yevamous?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Leiden Yerushalmi Manuscript is Online by David</title>
		<link>http://www.yerushalmionline.org/blog/?p=20&#038;cpage=1#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Mar 2010 15:27:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yerushalmionline.org/blog/?p=20#comment-5</guid>
		<description>An index is found in the following. It would be great if someone could find it in the library and scan it. (I noted its existence in the Hebrew U library one time, but never got to copy it).

    נספח לתלמוד ירושלמי כתב יד ליידן כולל שני מאמרים מאת פרופ&#039; שאול ליברמן ומפתח השוואה לדפי הדפוס מאת ישעיהו וינוגרד
    שוב על כת&quot;י ליידן של הירושלמי מאת פרופ&#039; שאול ליברמן, 5-15 [11 עמודים]
    ירושלמי הוריות מאת פרופ&#039; שאול ליברמן, 16-27 [12 עמודים]
    מפתח השוואה לפי הדפוס [קראטאשין תרכ&quot;ו] מאת ישעיהו וינגרד, 28-47 [20 עמודים]
    BM498 M3 L45 1972</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An index is found in the following. It would be great if someone could find it in the library and scan it. (I noted its existence in the Hebrew U library one time, but never got to copy it).</p>
<p>    נספח לתלמוד ירושלמי כתב יד ליידן כולל שני מאמרים מאת פרופ&#8217; שאול ליברמן ומפתח השוואה לדפי הדפוס מאת ישעיהו וינוגרד<br />
    שוב על כת&#8221;י ליידן של הירושלמי מאת פרופ&#8217; שאול ליברמן, 5-15 [11 עמודים]<br />
    ירושלמי הוריות מאת פרופ&#8217; שאול ליברמן, 16-27 [12 עמודים]<br />
    מפתח השוואה לפי הדפוס [קראטאשין תרכ"ו] מאת ישעיהו וינגרד, 28-47 [20 עמודים]<br />
    BM498 M3 L45 1972</p>
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		<title>Comment on New Audio Shiurim On Yerushalmi by Yossi</title>
		<link>http://www.yerushalmionline.org/blog/?p=9&#038;cpage=1#comment-3</link>
		<dc:creator>Yossi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 05:37:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yerushalmionline.org/blog/?p=9#comment-3</guid>
		<description>Here is the Archive page for the Hebrew Yerushalmi Shiurim:
http://www.yerushalmiyomi.org/page.asp?id=30</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is the Archive page for the Hebrew Yerushalmi Shiurim:<br />
<a href="http://www.yerushalmiyomi.org/page.asp?id=30" rel="nofollow">http://www.yerushalmiyomi.org/page.asp?id=30</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on New Audio Shiurim On Yerushalmi by Yossi</title>
		<link>http://www.yerushalmionline.org/blog/?p=9&#038;cpage=1#comment-2</link>
		<dc:creator>Yossi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 04:47:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.yerushalmionline.org/blog/?p=9#comment-2</guid>
		<description>Two other online resources for Yerushalmi SHiurim
Rabbi Ruinsky fast and content Rich
http://www.ohrreuven.com/audio_library.php
also Video shiur in Hebrew from Meras Hamechpelah in Yerushalmi they have Archives also:
http://www.yerushalmiyomi.org/
PUK CHAZI</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two other online resources for Yerushalmi SHiurim<br />
Rabbi Ruinsky fast and content Rich<br />
<a href="http://www.ohrreuven.com/audio_library.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.ohrreuven.com/audio_library.php</a><br />
also Video shiur in Hebrew from Meras Hamechpelah in Yerushalmi they have Archives also:<br />
<a href="http://www.yerushalmiyomi.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.yerushalmiyomi.org/</a><br />
PUK CHAZI</p>
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